Interview with Nurse Coach Nichole Haugen: How Catholic Moms can handle tough medical conversations

What do you do if your doctor tries to push you to do something that goes against your faith?  What about your kids?  Nurse Coach Nichole Haugen is on the podcast today to share all about how to navigate the world of health care as a catholic.  We're covering how to know your rights as a patient and parent, the language to use and listen for, and how to prepare your children for medical decisions.  Check out her webinars for nurses HERE

Nicole’s thoughts on the atmosphere in healthcare. (0:00)

Kelsey 0:00

So, Nicole, I was trying to think just tell us a little bit about what you consider the atmosphere right now in healthcare and how that relates to our understanding of the Theology of the Body and the dignity of the person.

Nichole Haugen 0:12

What would you like to tell us about that? Yeah, I think right now, first and foremost, I think I'll most healthcare workers right now are burned out, right, coming off the pandemic, and we're, like, very burnt out stressed. And then there's a shift, kind of in the culture. And there's a lot of challenges that you hear about parental rights and different things with your kids, you know, like, the transgender movement, gender ideology. And yeah, it's, it's concerning, you know, it's alarming. There's also been, you know, birth control issues now with birth or abortion, like, you know, being illegal, nationwide, but statewide, it kind of depends, like, there's a lot of issues around that. And now, Plan B is being more readily available. So there's a lot of health care workers that are struggling with where do they fit in as Catholic, you know, how to keep your job, but yet not cross a moral line? And all of those concerns? Yeah, absolutely.

What do we do to prepare our children?

Kelsey 1:29

I can't imagine how difficult that is to because it's just something we're really, I think it's just so clear this concept of in the world, but not of it, is where we are right now, because the culture has shifted so drastically in even the last decade. So one of the first things that would really benefit from learning a little bit, is this question of parental rights. What kind of parental rights do we have? Where does that begin and end? And what do we do when it comes to preparing our children for

Nichole Haugen 2:03

this world? Yeah, well, I think the biggest thing is to know your rights in your state, like there's a lot of people I talk to that they don't know, they just assume that this is how it is. And they have to do it this way. So I think the first thing is to like really know your rights, and know that you can refuse treatment and anytime, like, anytime you can refuse anything. I I know for me personally, like the biggest thing that was came up for me was around immunizations. And I'm not against immunizations. But one of my daughters was quite young, I think she was like four or five at the time. And they wanted to give her like, eight immunizations at one time, which I was not comfortable with. But the nurse had already drawn it up. She kind of like, I felt so guilty. I felt ashamed, because I don't want my daughter how this I didn't know how to speak up. I was like, really emotional. And my husband was like, Oh, it'll be fine. And the nurses in Priority had it drawn up, you know, like, but I wish I like looking back, I wish I would be like, no, like, I don't care if you drew it up, like I only want four, you know, or three. And you just know your rights. Because after that she was miserable for a good two or three days. And I felt then so much more guilt and shame on top of it, because I didn't stand up for her. So I think just know your rights. Like and know that you can refuse services, treatments, you can switch doctors. I live in a very rural area. So a lot of there's not a lot of choices, but I still have the choice to drive. If, if that's what's best for my family.

Advice on how to assert ourselves when you’re uncomfortable.

Kelsey 3:44

Do you have any advice for us in terms of like language that we can use to assert ourselves when we need to, in a way that's not like, you know, going to be super controversial or come off? Like we're wackos, because I think a lot of us are really worried that people are gonna think we're just crazy and out there. And it can be really hard to do something that is so countercultural, like for instance, I know I always hate after I've had a baby, that postpartum conversation of No, I'm not using birth control. It's just the doctors that like, oh, well, that's why you have a lot of kids.

Nichole Haugen 4:22

It's really awkward. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, they think it's just for one realizing like, Okay, why am I so uncomfortable? Most of the time it is because we don't want to feel judged, right? We don't want other people to judge us. We don't want to come off like crazy Zelos religious person, right? Like we were just normal. People try to live our day to day lives following the Catholic faith. And so I think just recognizing that like, like feeling that like, I'm like really fearful I don't want them to judge me. And then like, having a couple go to thoughts of just being like, No, I am informed Do I know my rights? You know, like, like, I got this, right. Like, I just like, we know that that conversation is gonna come up after every baby you have most of time even like with your annual exam, you know, they talk about birth control and like, just be like, No, I do have an NFP and like, they will say something. Because they do and just just be like, no, and then you know, all that, you know, they can space out your kids or you don't have to have. Yep. But this is the perfect family for us, you know, just having a go to kind of saying, and just are just really, that's okay, that's fine. And just keep repeating it. I think too, like a lot of times, they can be so forceful. So we feel like oh my gosh, like maybe I'm doing something wrong. I probably should have explained myself further. You don't have to explain yourself. You don't have to give them a reason. Just no. No.

Red flag terms to be aware of.

Kelsey 5:56

Yes. That's just not a good fit for our family. No, thank you.

Nichole Haugen 6:00

Yeah. And I heard like, no as a full sentence, right. So like that.

Kelsey 6:05

What about when it comes to something that might be a little more medically complex? I think sometimes there are times where we might encounter a situation where it's just not clear if something is moral or not, because we don't have the terminology? Or are there any kinds of red flag terms out there that you think Catholic moms should be aware of? That might be like, for instance, you know, abortifacients type things or anything that might be in disguise, so to speak?

Nichole Haugen 6:37

Well, I think, um, the biggest ones that are in disguise, like the morning after pill, they say, oh, it's not an abortion for a patient. But it is I mean, and they think there was one term I heard somebody say, I think they were overseas, but they had an ultrasound, they were pregnant. And they didn't call it terminating the pregnancy. They called it something else. And I can't remember what it was now. But it was like, Yeah, I don't think it was it was just like, Oh, do you want to like, take care of that? You know, and they're like, it was just a very like, sneaky, simple phrase. But I would just like always ask, I think the most important thing is always ask questions, because a lot of times we think that doctors know everything. And they don't, I mean, they're human just as well, they Google things. They look things up as they go. So just always ask questions, if you don't know exactly what that means. Just be like, what does that entail? What what what do you mean by that? I think just really ask questions. And then if you're not sure after that, you know, consult your priest, maybe ask another if you have a friend or somebody who works in health care be like, I don't I still don't understand. Or you can always there's a lot of telehealth now where you can call a nurse, or you can call a nurse at a clinic like and just ask them questions and be like, Hey, can you really explain this to me what this means? And just do your research? Yeah, that's, that's probably

Kelsey 8:02

really the best way to go about it. Because that even prepares us for when terms are changing, like, there's always going to be a new term, there's always going to be a new way of saying something. And I think you're right, we just have to be ready to roll up our sleeves and dig in and be educated about the decisions we're making.

Nichole Haugen 8:21

I think to like, if you're in the moment, and it doesn't feel right in your gut, like, listen to that, and just be like, I'm gonna think about this, you know, because a lot of times they want you to make a decision that day, or, you know, whatever, but like, just really be like, I'm gonna think about this, I'll, I'll follow up in three days, you know, just set amount of time. So then, you know, also like, Okay, I'm going to research this. I have three days to look into this.

How the medical definition of conception has changed.

Kelsey 8:46

I have a question for you. This one is just something I came across in a couple years ago was, I noticed that it seemed like the definition The medical definition of conception had changed. Like it, you know, our Catholic definition is basically fertilization is the moment of conception. But it seemed to me that now it's something more along the lines of implantation. And so doctors will say, Oh, no, this isn't abortive, because the conception doesn't occur. But what they mean is implantation, does it occur? Is that

Nichole Haugen 9:25

correct? Yeah, I mean, you kind of see that more and more. I think that really came around with like, the morning after pill when so then they could justify, like, oh, no, it's not an abortion. Right. because there hasn't been implantation yet. But yeah, we know, as Catholics, that's not true, that conception does happen at fertilization. And the idea that they just they switch up the terminology I I also saw recently, a post. I think it was like a nursing student had shared this with like Abby Johnson and they, instead of putting, like a pregnant when they were talking about abortion in class, it was like, instead of seeing the baby in the womb, it was a ball. It was just so you know, so then they messed up. Yeah, like, Oh, it's a clump of cells. But really a few page over I'm sure when you're talking about pregnancy, they show you the baby. There is like the stages of development. So it's very, they're, it's, they're getting sneakier. Let's just say that. The devil is, you know, the master of lies. And he's, he's really been fine tuning.

Preparing kids for the future

Kelsey 10:38

He loves to redefine things, doesn't he? Yeah, very Orwellian doublethink going on. Now, you're a mom of six girls. What are you doing to prepare them for this world and the future medical decisions they might end up needing to make?

Nichole Haugen 11:02

Yeah, I think again, I just try to inform them the best as possible. We do. Messy family has a classmate ins by his designed to talk about the female body. And I mean, I'm very, we talk very terminology terms, you know, like with them. I just, I open that conversation with them. And allow them to ask questions. And then I also prepare them for, you know, like my daughter, who will probably have to go get a physical this year before she plays sports, because she's 12, she'll be 13 in the fall. So like, you know, just to inform her like you can refuse if you don't want me to leave the room, you can refuse that you can say no, I want my mom with me. And because these are the things they will talk about, you know, like, and really, again, just informed them just as you want to be informed when you go to make your health decisions inform them as much as you possibly can. Because like you said, like, other side is getting getting sneaky here. And, and trickier with the terms and the words they use and so 12 or 13 year old might be confused and disagree with something because they have no idea. So just again, really informed them really have those discussions and and and there's so many great resources out there for nearly theology, the body tools and things to talk about kids with their about their bodies and the changes and what the Church believes. And yeah, so there's so many good resources out there now

Kelsey 12:36

on the call. Thank you so much. This has been such a helpful conversation. How can people find you?

Nichole Haugen 12:43

You can find me at www dot Catholic nurse coach.com And I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok with those same handles Catholic nurse coach. Awesome. Thank

Kelsey 12:56

you so much for being here today. Yeah, thank you